Sara Koste and I, discussing love

So, yeah, I know, that April should be posting the things from the girls but I was talking to Sara tonight and it came up, so here it is with some minor editing and fixes.

what is she bear (8:41:19 PM): and I'd question your idea of love. but whatever, I just blogged about that

micaspangled (8:41:52 PM): oh really? you'd question it?

what is she bear (8:42:41 PM): well, I'd question what you mean by love.

micaspangled (8:43:11 PM): well maybe you would

micaspangled (8:43:23 PM): fine then, duncan. tell me how i don't love him

what is she bear (8:45:45 PM): I'm not saying that you don't like him a lot. that you don't like being around and that you don't enjoy his company and all those things. But what I'd call into question is what you mean by love? Because, can you actually love someone that you'd dated for what? two weeks or something? Can you really get to know someone on an emotional and physical level that is required for a loving bond, or connection or something like that to form?

micaspangled (8:46:13 PM): yes

what is she bear (8:46:52 PM): alright then.

what is she bear (8:47:10 PM): then ask him to prom right now. because if you love him, I have no idea what you're waiting for.

micaspangled (8:47:26 PM): duncan, do u have any idea how fickle i am?

what is she bear (8:48:02 PM): yes, I do. but if that means that you love him right now and today but you won't tomorrow then that breaks the criterion for love

micaspangled (8:48:40 PM): i think that u have a judgmental view of love

micaspangled (8:48:47 PM): i think that it is something that is always there

micaspangled (8:49:20 PM): ever since i have "been in love with" him, i have had a little like, un-reality check every time i see him, no matter what

micaspangled (8:49:44 PM): i am a willful person duncan, if i believe that i should not love him, i will do everything i can to try and make myself fall out of love with him

what is she bear (8:50:35 PM): what do you mean un-reality check?

micaspangled (8:51:10 PM): like an out-of-body experience, like instead of a reality check, it's like a millisecond fantasy of what it could be

what is she bear (8:51:28 PM): I see. alright.

micaspangled (8:57:27 PM): well then, what are your perspectives on love? not to pursue the topic, but it's an interesting one that people usually avoid

what is she bear (9:02:40 PM): perspectives on love? If you mean, do I think the term overly romantic or something? Well no, because I believe that love happens, and I experience love myself. But, in a nutshell, I think that romantic love can not really (or at least very easily) be formed in a high school setting. I don't know why I don't see love as being something that can happen in high school, but I just don't think that two people in high school know each other well enough, or long enough to love each other. but, I contradict myself of course. I love my parents and I've only known them for 17 years. I love my friends, april for instance, I love april like a sister and we've only been friends since seventh grade. but those things are different than romantic love. I don't think that romantic love can be easily explained or experienced on the same level as friendship love which I see as something which can develop more quickly but grow incredibly strong where as romantic love has to start with a strong connection and then become love. or something like that.

micaspangled (9:05:56 PM): yes. well, i sort of agree with you. i suppose i don't know if i can experience romantic love right now. i think that it's not impossible to find true love in high school. a good example? my parents! they were high school sweethearts, and they are still together. i mean, i don't know the intricacies of their relationship, but it's pretty good proof for me. i also agree with you. see, the thing is that i think friendship love and romantic love are not very different at all. i don't know enough about it yet, but i think that romantic love is an extension of friendship love, and perhaps has the attraction factor added in

what is she bear (9:09:01 PM): well, I think that romantic love is one of those weird things that can fall into a couple of categories. while sure it can be similar to friendship at times, it also has to be a deeper connection than any friendship. then there has to be the attractive piece, but that plays into another aspect of love which is the desire and such part of love. so, I don't know, I think it's one of those things that is way too complicated for most people to experience at this early a point in life, but then again, I've been wrong before.

micaspangled (9:13:13 PM): yea, i think you're right. like, i didn't word it correctly. i don't know about you, but with me, it's all about the personality. like, 95%. i mean, i probably wouldn't want a short, fat, bald, acne-covered 45-year old man, but i mean, that being an extreme, physical attractiveness is really completely irrelevant. it's an attractiveness of character. like, someone can pretty easily make me fall in love with them.. all it takes is for them to do something, even the tiniest thing, that shows me that they care about me. this is probably a result of the constant teasing and berating i receive.

micaspangled (9:13:23 PM): but

micaspangled (9:13:45 PM): the thing that they do that will make me fall in love with them is not a set thing

micaspangled (9:14:15 PM): like, even when this guy made out with me, that didn't make me fall in love with him at all. it showed he liked me, but it didn't show that he cared about me.

micaspangled (9:16:51 PM): i care about a lot of people, like extremely. it's that sort of friendship love you talk about, but i practically abuse it. when i say care, i mean like, understanding. if you understand a person, u can usually pretty much predict how they feel or what they want when they are in a mood. i'm like that with dom, lauren, my brothers,. with some people it's really not hard to figure them out, they're kind of transparent. but that's not a bad thing!! it just makes it easier for me. i'll still care about someone, even if they're transparent. because if their transparency shows beauty, all the better

micaspangled (9:17:31 PM): this all has to do with love

micaspangled (9:17:34 PM): i think

what is she bear (9:17:55 PM): so, you're saying for you to love someone they have to be nontransparent though? you have to care about them, but not be able to figure them out?

micaspangled (9:18:20 PM): oh no i'm not saying that at all.

micaspangled (9:18:29 PM): i'm just trying to explain to you how i view people

micaspangled (9:18:52 PM): transparency or not is not a qualification, it is just a way that i explain how i can completely understand some people and not others

what is she bear (9:19:06 PM): ok

what is she bear (9:19:12 PM): well, what about that guy?

micaspangled (9:19:25 PM): well, i understand him most of the time

micaspangled (9:19:55 PM): like, when he's in a good mood, if he wants to talk about serious stuff, if he just wants to be silly

micaspangled (9:20:07 PM): but i don't always understand when or why or what to do when he's in a bad mood.

micaspangled (9:20:38 PM): i'm the kind of person who takes pleasure in pleasing other people, in wrapping myself around what makes other people happy, and so i need to know about these things

micaspangled (9:20:50 PM): that's why i love giving backrubs so much

what is she bear (9:24:06 PM): and on topic, well back to the love topic: someone posted this on my blog post "My dad always says, You know you love someone when your happy when they are happy, and when they are sad, you are sad." and that sounds a lot like you. But, I can see this kind of attitude not allowing any personal freedom. Because if you focus all your attention on someone else then there is none left for yourself and you trust yourself to be supported by the other person. which I guess could be the point.

micaspangled (9:24:33 PM): that's the thing with me

micaspangled (9:24:45 PM): it's not a cage, though.

micaspangled (9:25:18 PM): if you derive pleasure from other people's care for you and own happiness, it's really much easier to attain

micaspangled (9:25:28 PM): and it's not like i can't make my own happiness

micaspangled (9:25:39 PM): and it is about trust

micaspangled (9:26:04 PM): like, right now i believe that i trust him forever

micaspangled (9:26:09 PM): i like to be taken care of

what is she bear (9:27:37 PM): I guess that is where we somewhat differ, because while I feel that I can trust people pretty well, I guess if I can't place myself into the mold deriving pleasure from helping them totally then I'm not actually that trusting. I don't know.

what is she bear (9:28:06 PM): but see, sara, you also seem to like to take care of someone else, if you want to make them happy. though, I guess that goes both ways

micaspangled (9:28:49 PM): it does. it's such an old-fashioned woman's role, though. i sort of despise that, and still it's nice

what is she bear (9:29:27 PM): I guess it's just your personality

micaspangled (9:30:14 PM): ah, well. it's just because i'm sheltered. someday something horrible and earth-shattering will happen to me, and i'll either die or learn from it and turn into a hard-hearted old cronie